uk orientated copyright questions

[killermike]

I have two questions on the subject of copyright law in the UK. I have
searched with google but I haven't been able to find any satisfactory
answers.

I would like to publish some of my creative work on my website but I would
like to preserve my anonymity by using my pen name rather than my real
name. I would also like to include a copyright notice with the work. The
work takes the form of excerpts from essays, scripts, musical works etc.

I have found the http://copyrightservice.co.uk/ page but none of the
information there relates to asserting that you are the copyright owner
while using a pen name.

For example, if I mark the work "Copyright (C) 2005 Pen-name. All Rights
Reserved.", how do I, in the event of a dispute, prove that I am
"Pen-name"? Can I register my pen name somewhere?

Secondly, are there any other reliable ways of archiving copyright material
for UK citizens? The UK Copyright Service seems comprehensive and
professional but rather expensive at 35 pounds for five years. Are there
any other services that UK writers use? For example does anyone know if
submission to Usenet has been tested in a legal situation as a way of
establishing 'prior art'?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

[Jackson Pillock]

"killermike" <***@softhome.net> wrote in message news:1friajxybabwv$***@unmusic.co.uk...
: I have two questions on the subject of copyright law in the UK. I have
: searched with google but I haven't been able to find any satisfactory
: answers.
:
: I would like to publish some of my creative work on my website but I would
: like to preserve my anonymity by using my pen name rather than my real
: name. I would also like to include a copyright notice with the work. The
: work takes the form of excerpts from essays, scripts, musical works etc.
:
: I have found the http://copyrightservice.co.uk/ page but none of the
: information there relates to asserting that you are the copyright owner
: while using a pen name.
:
: For example, if I mark the work "Copyright (C) 2005 Pen-name. All Rights
: Reserved.", how do I, in the event of a dispute, prove that I am
: "Pen-name"? Can I register my pen name somewhere?
:
: Secondly, are there any other reliable ways of archiving copyright
material
: for UK citizens? The UK Copyright Service seems comprehensive and
: professional but rather expensive at 35 pounds for five years. Are there
: any other services that UK writers use? For example does anyone know if
: submission to Usenet has been tested in a legal situation as a way of
: establishing 'prior art'?


Don't worry. If you wrote it, it's yours, and you'd have many ways of
proving it in court, starting with the computer you wrote it on. If you're
concerned with preventing anyone from stealing your work, you should start
by not putting it up on a website. I'm not sure, but I think "prior art" is
a patents term.

:
: Thanks in advance for any assistance.
:
: --
: ***My real address is m/ike at u/nmusic d/ot co dot u/k (removing /s)
: np:
: http://www.unmusic.co.uk
: http://www.unmusic.co.uk/amh-s-faq.html - alt.music.home-studio FAQ
: http://www.unmusic.co.uk/wrap.php?file=vhs.html - vhs purchase log.

[killermike]

[snip]

Post by Jackson Pillock
: any other services that UK writers use? For example does anyone know if
: submission to Usenet has been tested in a legal situation as a way of
: establishing 'prior art'?
Don't worry. If you wrote it, it's yours, and you'd have many ways of

I understand that part of copyright. It because subject to copyright and is
my property as soon as it is committed to a tangible medium. But this
wasn't my question.

Post by Jackson Pillock
proving it in court, starting with the computer you wrote it on. If you're

How would having a copy of it on my computer help me to prove that I wrote
it or when I wrote it? However, this wasn't my question.

Post by Jackson Pillock
concerned with preventing anyone from stealing your work, you should start
by not putting it up on a website.

It's the way that I want to work.

Post by Jackson Pillock
I'm not sure, but I think "prior art" is
a patents term.

Quite possibly. I meant, 'a copy of a creative work in a tangible medium
that can be definitively dated to prove that, as it's creator, you are in
possession of the earliest copy of that work.'

[Alan Hope]

Post by killermike
[snip]

Post by Jackson Pillock
: any other services that UK writers use? For example does anyone know if
: submission to Usenet has been tested in a legal situation as a way of
: establishing 'prior art'?
Don't worry. If you wrote it, it's yours, and you'd have many ways of

I understand that part of copyright. It because subject to copyright and is
my property as soon as it is committed to a tangible medium. But this
wasn't my question.

Post by Jackson Pillock
proving it in court, starting with the computer you wrote it on. If you're

it or when I wrote it? However, this wasn't my question.

Post by Jackson Pillock
concerned with preventing anyone from stealing your work, you should start
by not putting it up on a website.

It's the way that I want to work.

Post by Jackson Pillock
I'm not sure, but I think "prior art" is
a patents term.

Quite possibly. I meant, 'a copy of a creative work in a tangible medium
that can be definitively dated to prove that, as it's creator, you are in
possession of the earliest copy of that work.'

There's no definitive way of doing it, other than official
registration, which comes with the costs you know about.

All other methods can be faked.

I do think, however, that for someone who calls himself killermike,
you're an awfully whiney beast. I say that not à propos of nothing or
merely to wound you, but to explain what follows. Viz:

I and many others have, over the years, taken the opportunity offered
by this perennial question to point out to the clueless that the
chances of anyone stealing their work are not small and not slim:
they're even less substantial than that.

And now, to return to what you may have taken to be a gratuitous
comment aimed at you personally, I'm going to stop explaining to you.
I see you're not someone who takes direction, so you can fuck off and
whistle for the rest of the useful information I had for you.

You may well find what you need in the group archive at Google, or in
a FAQ somewhere. I wouldn't know, and I don't care.

I wish you lots of success in putting people's backs up while you're
begging them cap in hand for help. You show early promise, you cunt.

[Dr Zen]

Post by killermike
I have two questions on the subject of copyright law in the UK. I have
searched with google but I haven't been able to find any satisfactory
answers.
I would like to publish some of my creative work on my website but I would
like to preserve my anonymity by using my pen name rather than my real
name. I would also like to include a copyright notice with the work.

Why?

Post by killermike
The
work takes the form of excerpts from essays, scripts, musical works etc.
I have found the http://copyrightservice.co.uk/ page but none of the
information there relates to asserting that you are the copyright owner
while using a pen name.

Just put "All rights reserved" at the bottom.

Post by killermike
For example, if I mark the work "Copyright (C) 2005 Pen-name. All Rights
Reserved.", how do I, in the event of a dispute, prove that I am
"Pen-name"? Can I register my pen name somewhere?

Email copies to your mum.

I'm not kidding.

You can easily establish that you are the website owner or user.

Post by killermike
Secondly, are there any other reliable ways of archiving copyright material
for UK citizens?

Try a safety deposit box.

Or post it to your mum. Really.

Post by killermike
The UK Copyright Service seems comprehensive and
professional but rather expensive at 35 pounds for five years.

That's not expensive, you cheap git!

Post by killermike
Are there
any other services that UK writers use? For example does anyone know if
submission to Usenet has been tested in a legal situation as a way of
establishing 'prior art'?

Probably not but it would be sufficient. I'm pretty sure that posting
work registered would be enough and posting to Usenet would have the
same effect.

Zen

[killermike]

Post by Dr Zen

Post by killermike
I would like to publish some of my creative work on my website but I

would

Post by killermike
like to preserve my anonymity by using my pen name rather than my

real

Post by killermike
name. I would also like to include a copyright notice with the work.

Why?

Because I want to. Surely, I am not first person working in a creative
field who wants to preserve their privacy. The anonymity of the Internet is
one of it's attractions for me.

Post by Dr Zen
Just put "All rights reserved" at the bottom.

Thanks but I had already found that bit of information.

Post by Dr Zen

Post by killermike
For example, if I mark the work "Copyright (C) 2005 Pen-name. All

Rights

Post by killermike
Reserved.", how do I, in the event of a dispute, prove that I am
"Pen-name"? Can I register my pen name somewhere?

Email copies to your mum.
I'm not kidding.

How does that establish that I am the author of the work or when I authored
the work?

Post by Dr Zen
You can easily establish that you are the website owner or user.

Yes but this doesn't prove when I wrote the work. In a dispute over the
ownership of a creative work, it is often the case that one party will want
to prove that they have the earliest copy of the work so that they can
prove that they created it.

Post by Dr Zen

Post by killermike
Secondly, are there any other reliable ways of archiving copyright

material

Post by killermike
for UK citizens?

Try a safety deposit box.

Again, I don't see how this definitively establishes the date of the work's
creation.

Post by Dr Zen
Or post it to your mum. Really.

Most people seem to feel that 'posting to yourself' or similar methods
aren't very reliable.

Post by Dr Zen

Post by killermike
The UK Copyright Service seems comprehensive and
professional but rather expensive at 35 pounds for five years.

That's not expensive, you cheap git!

It's relative but I wondered if there were any cheaper methods that UK
authors used.

Post by Dr Zen

Post by killermike
Are there
any other services that UK writers use? For example does anyone know

if

Post by killermike
submission to Usenet has been tested in a legal situation as a way of
establishing 'prior art'?

Probably not but it would be sufficient. I'm pretty sure that posting
work registered would be enough and posting to Usenet would have the
same effect.

But I don't know if it is any good as I do not know if it has ever been
tested. Would the court system even know what Usenet and google.com are?

[JF]

X-No-Archive: yes

Post by killermike
Because I want to. Surely, I am not first person working in a creative
field who wants to preserve their privacy. The anonymity of the Internet is
one of it's attractions for me.

The only reason why an aspiring writer would wish to be anonymous is if
they have a burning ambition to be a spectacular, poverty-stricken
failure. If so, don't for God's sake take any notice of me. I've made an
obscene amount of money from parading my name all and everywhere, even
to the extent of using an aggressively self-publicizing signature file.
Moreover, I don't even bother to go ex-directory with my telephone
number. Anyone with a Guildford telephone directory can track me down if
they wish. In thirty-five years, the only people who've bothered are
those who wish to employ me and pay me money because they didn't know
who my agent was.

So you continue to keep your head down as you plough your miserable,
lonely furrow in the mighty field of fog-shrouded failure and I
guarantee that no-one will bother you or even notice you're there other
than name-trumpeting writers such as myself who have selfishly chosen to
soar with the eagles rather than waddle with turkeys.

[Alan Hope]

Post by JF
X-No-Archive: yes

Post by killermike
Because I want to. Surely, I am not first person working in a creative
field who wants to preserve their privacy. The anonymity of the Internet is
one of it's attractions for me.

The only reason why an aspiring writer would wish to be anonymous is if
they have a burning ambition to be a spectacular, poverty-stricken
failure. If so, don't for God's sake take any notice of me. I've made an
obscene amount of money from parading my name all and everywhere, even
to the extent of using an aggressively self-publicizing signature file.
Moreover, I don't even bother to go ex-directory with my telephone
number. Anyone with a Guildford telephone directory can track me down if
they wish. In thirty-five years, the only people who've bothered are
those who wish to employ me and pay me money because they didn't know
who my agent was.
So you continue to keep your head down as you plough your miserable,
lonely furrow in the mighty field of fog-shrouded failure and I
guarantee that no-one will bother you or even notice you're there other
than name-trumpeting writers such as myself who have selfishly chosen to
soar with the eagles rather than waddle with turkeys.

Should anyone on misc.writing wonder who the fuck this Follett
character is, they can go to www.bbc.co.uk/bbc7 and root around for
the hundreds of references to his name you'll find there. BBC7 would
be off the air for about four hours a day were it not for Follett.

Course his stuff is not entirely to my taste, me being a bit of a
highbrow (as ucaw readers know) but his success is not to be
questioned. They were running one of his series last week, and this
week they're running the sequel. On the BBC.

Who in MW can say anything even approaching that?

Well, that's enough pimping for me for one evening. I'm off to have me
tea.

[J.V.Ashby]

Post by Alan Hope

Post by JF
X-No-Archive: yes

Post by killermike
Because I want to. Surely, I am not first person working in a
creative field who wants to preserve their privacy. The anonymity of
the Internet is one of it's attractions for me.

The only reason why an aspiring writer would wish to be anonymous is
if they have a burning ambition to be a spectacular, poverty-stricken
failure. If so, don't for God's sake take any notice of me. I've made
an obscene amount of money from parading my name all and everywhere,
even to the extent of using an aggressively self-publicizing signature
file. Moreover, I don't even bother to go ex-directory with my
telephone number. Anyone with a Guildford telephone directory can
track me down if they wish. In thirty-five years, the only people
who've bothered are those who wish to employ me and pay me money
because they didn't know who my agent was.
So you continue to keep your head down as you plough your miserable,
lonely furrow in the mighty field of fog-shrouded failure and I
guarantee that no-one will bother you or even notice you're there
other than name-trumpeting writers such as myself who have selfishly
chosen to soar with the eagles rather than waddle with turkeys.

Should anyone on misc.writing wonder who the fuck this Follett
character is, they can go to www.bbc.co.uk/bbc7 and root around for
the hundreds of references to his name you'll find there. BBC7 would
be off the air for about four hours a day were it not for Follett.
Course his stuff is not entirely to my taste, me being a bit of a
highbrow (as ucaw readers know) but his success is not to be
questioned. They were running one of his series last week, and this
week they're running the sequel. On the BBC.

Right, so he clearly knows fuck all about UK copyright matters,
promotion of writing or all the other stuff he's spouted about here. Or
to put it another way, what right has he got to come here confusing us
with facts? Doesn't he know this is Usenet?

I'll take someone called killermike over a BBC-funded writer any day, oh
yes indeedy.

Post by Alan Hope
Who in MW can say anything even approaching that?

I was interviewed for Radio Oxford once.

Post by Alan Hope
Well, that's enough pimping for me for one evening. I'm off to have me
tea.

Enjoy.

john (for the sensitive souls the above was tongue-in-cheek. Except for
the "Enjoy", that was sincere (if too late))

[f***@gmail.com]

Post by killermike

Post by Dr Zen

Post by killermike
I would like to publish some of my creative work on my website but I

would

Post by killermike
like to preserve my anonymity by using my pen name rather than my

real

Post by killermike
name. I would also like to include a copyright notice with the work.

Why?

Because I want to. Surely, I am not first person working in a

creative

Post by killermike
field who wants to preserve their privacy. The anonymity of the Internet is
one of it's attractions for me.

No, idiot, why do you want to put a copyright notice on it? It doesn't
need one.

Post by killermike

Post by Dr Zen
Just put "All rights reserved" at the bottom.

Thanks but I had already found that bit of information.

Then why are you asking?

Post by killermike

Post by Dr Zen

Post by killermike
For example, if I mark the work "Copyright (C) 2005 Pen-name. All

Rights

Post by killermike
Reserved.", how do I, in the event of a dispute, prove that I am
"Pen-name"? Can I register my pen name somewhere?

Email copies to your mum.
I'm not kidding.

How does that establish that I am the author of the work or when I authored
the work?

You are too stupid to have written anything worth stealing.

Post by killermike

Post by Dr Zen
You can easily establish that you are the website owner or user.

Yes but this doesn't prove when I wrote the work.

Fuckwit.

Post by killermike
In a dispute over the
ownership of a creative work, it is often the case that one party will want
to prove that they have the earliest copy of the work so that they can
prove that they created it.

No. No one will ever steal your work. You are too stupid to write
anything stealable. If you weren't, you would not be here asking stupid
fucking questions, you would be doing the writing. And getting paid for
it.

Post by killermike

Post by Dr Zen

Post by killermike
Secondly, are there any other reliable ways of archiving copyright

material

Post by killermike
for UK citizens?

Try a safety deposit box.

Again, I don't see how this definitively establishes the date of the work's
creation.

Fucksake.

Post by killermike

Post by Dr Zen
Or post it to your mum. Really.

Most people seem to feel that 'posting to yourself' or similar

methods

Post by killermike
aren't very reliable.

Most people are entirely wrong.

Post by killermike

Post by Dr Zen

Post by killermike
The UK Copyright Service seems comprehensive and
professional but rather expensive at 35 pounds for five years.

That's not expensive, you cheap git!

It's relative but I wondered if there were any cheaper methods that UK
authors used.

Post it to your mum.

Post by killermike

Post by Dr Zen

Post by killermike
Are there
any other services that UK writers use? For example does anyone know

if

Post by killermike
submission to Usenet has been tested in a legal situation as a way of
establishing 'prior art'?

Probably not but it would be sufficient. I'm pretty sure that posting
work registered would be enough and posting to Usenet would have the
same effect.

But I don't know if it is any good as I do not know if it has ever been
tested.

No. Guess why it hasn't.

Post by killermike
Would the court system even know what Usenet and google.com are?

Your lawyer would demonstrate what they are, you fucking clown. Jeezus.
Cart this twat away, someone.

Z.

[Jeremiah Harbottle]

Post by killermike
Because I want to. Surely, I am not first person working in a creative
field who wants to preserve their privacy. The anonymity of the Internet is
one of it's attractions for me.

Before you start, learn the difference between "it's" and "its".

[JF]

X-No-Archive: yes

Post by killermike
I have two questions on the subject of copyright law in the UK.

Your material is in right from the moment the pixels are dry on the
paper.

Those that strut and trumpet about their rights are usually the ones
that produce stuff that's hardly worth protecting.

[killermike]

Post by JF
X-No-Archive: yes

Post by killermike
I have two questions on the subject of copyright law in the UK.

Your material is in right from the moment the pixels are dry on the
paper.

This wasn't my question. I know that copyright is established as soon as
you commit the work to a tangible medium.

Post by JF
Those that strut and trumpet about their rights are usually the ones
that produce stuff that's hardly worth protecting.

Don't know if this holds true. Not much point in embarking on an endeavor
unless you think that the work has some value and is therefore worth
protecting. Unless of course, you are doing it 'just for fun'; in which
case I don't see why that person would be concerned with their rights to
the work.

[Alan Hope]

Post by killermike

Post by JF
X-No-Archive: yes

Post by killermike
I have two questions on the subject of copyright law in the UK.

Your material is in right from the moment the pixels are dry on the
paper.

This wasn't my question. I know that copyright is established as soon as
you commit the work to a tangible medium.

Fixed form. Not tangible medium.

Email is not a tangible medium, nor is a web-page, nor indeed is a
radio broadcast. But all are fixed forms. The law has established all
of this, so you don't need to.

Post by killermike

Post by JF
Those that strut and trumpet about their rights are usually the ones
that produce stuff that's hardly worth protecting.

Don't know if this holds true.

Oh it certainly does. Believe me.

Post by killermike
Not much point in embarking on an endeavor
unless you think that the work has some value and is therefore worth
protecting.

In other words, you haven't actually written anything yet. You're
sitting there in front of a sheet of paper in the typewriter that
reads:

Croc Shit

A Novel

by

Killer Mike

and you're worrying about whether the Book Club Club of Books Clubs
should take a 35 percent cut or only 30 percent.

The people who come here and ask your question are invariably all the
way up to word-count zero. It's like a law of fucking physics. Or
maybe metaphysics.

Post by killermike
Unless of course, you are doing it 'just for fun'; in which
case I don't see why that person would be concerned with their rights to
the work.

Most people have trouble seeing why anyone would be looking to
register a work of genius that hasn't been created yet.

Why don't you get to work?

[f***@gmail.com]

Post by killermike

Post by JF
X-No-Archive: yes

Post by killermike
I have two questions on the subject of copyright law in the UK.

Your material is in right from the moment the pixels are dry on the
paper.

This wasn't my question. I know that copyright is established as soon as
you commit the work to a tangible medium.

As Alan says, fixed form.

So you know that, you know all you need to know.

Wipe up after you, you drooling fucking ninny.

Z.