Ping FCS

[Blue Sow]

I meant to ask your views on (writing) poetry but I disremembered (until now).

[FCS]

Post by Blue Sow
I meant to ask your views on (writing) poetry but I disremembered (until now).
--
Blue Sow

I enjoy it but don't apply myself to it anywhere near
enough. I tend to get a bit bogged down in making
it rhyme and trying to use consistent metred scansion
rather than just letting it "flow".

I've really never mastered blank verse to my satisfaction.

In fact it is actually rather longer since I bothered than I
like to remember.

Your good self?

G DAEB

COPYRIGHT (C) 2007 SIPSTON
--

[Blue Sow]

Post by FCS

Post by Blue Sow
I meant to ask your views on (writing) poetry but I disremembered (until now).
--
Blue Sow

I enjoy it but don't apply myself to it anywhere near
enough. I tend to get a bit bogged down in making
it rhyme and trying to use consistent metred scansion
rather than just letting it "flow".
I've really never mastered blank verse to my satisfaction.
In fact it is actually rather longer since I bothered than I
like to remember.
Your good self?

I have been known to write such things.
Only once have I had the experience of waking up with a complete rhyming poem in
my head (which comprised twelve four-line verses). I wrote it down immediately.
Sadly, it lacked the merit of 'Xanadu' and ultimately found its way into file
thirteen. It was an interesting experience however.

I have written an amount of free verse, which does allow one to let it flow to
some extent (to use your phrase), as well as a little blank verse. I find the
discipline of the sonnet a pleasant challenge although I have only written in
the Shakespearean format. I hope to attempt something Petrarchan perhaps by the
turn of the year when I may have some time available.
I have also dabbled a little in Haiku (in English of course). The format does
concentrate the thoughts somewhat given the need to pack a lot of meaning into
so small a space.

I have, rather unforgivably, recently mislaid a reference regarding a poet who
pointed out that all poets have to write bad poetry in order to get to good
poetry. Certainly my early attempts at some forms were very poor, and
occasionally still are. On the plus side of course, I am not a poet (-:

[FCS]

Post by Blue Sow

Post by FCS

Post by Blue Sow
I meant to ask your views on (writing) poetry but I disremembered (until now).
--
Blue Sow

I enjoy it but don't apply myself to it anywhere near
enough. I tend to get a bit bogged down in making
it rhyme and trying to use consistent metred scansion
rather than just letting it "flow".
I've really never mastered blank verse to my satisfaction.
In fact it is actually rather longer since I bothered than I
like to remember.
Your good self?

I have been known to write such things.
Only once have I had the experience of waking up with a complete rhyming poem in
my head (which comprised twelve four-line verses). I wrote it down immediately.
Sadly, it lacked the merit of 'Xanadu' and ultimately found its way into file
thirteen. It was an interesting experience however.
I have written an amount of free verse, which does allow one to let it flow to
some extent (to use your phrase), as well as a little blank verse.

Bank verse being metred and free verse being
unconstrained--except that it can't be prose.

Yes, I've done some free verse and there are
times it can be useful. It's that long since I've
bothered doing anything poetic, except for the
odd rhymic or rhythmical allusion in prose.


I find the

Post by Blue Sow
discipline of the sonnet a pleasant challenge although I have only written in
the Shakespearean format.

Well, it's certainly the time of year for it.

Are you aware of any traditions of sonnets
in celebration/preparation of the winter
solstice?

I hope to attempt something Petrarchan perhaps by the

Post by Blue Sow
turn of the year when I may have some time available.

I shall look out some translations in the mean-
time then. It's been on my mental to-study list
for far longer than I would really like to admit.

Post by Blue Sow
I have also dabbled a little in Haiku (in English of course). The format does
concentrate the thoughts somewhat given the need to pack a lot of meaning into
so small a space.
I have, rather unforgivably, recently mislaid a reference regarding a poet who
pointed out that all poets have to write bad poetry in order to get to good
poetry. Certainly my early attempts at some forms were very poor, and

I remember a retired artist, by which I mean someone
I knew who was a hobbyist throughout their life and
dedicated more time to it in retirement, rather than
someone who made a living at it, from whom I learnt
how true it is that a painting is never "finished".

Every so often a picture be taken down off the walls
and subject to a little dab here and there, which you
can do quite easily with oils--more so than watercolour.

There was no set schedule for this IIRC, just when a
shortcoming had irked him enough he set about
improving it. They are now as "finished" as they will
ever be as he shuffled off the mortal coil about15
years hence.

In other words, you can always hone it.

The point at which I'm finally happy that a musical
composition or arrangement is as "finished" as it can
be is when I set about deconstructing it in order to
further simplify it--which can often be a quite useful
form of "revision" in that not only do I remember why
it is I did it like that in the first place but I also avoid
over-using the same influences further down the line.

Oh, BTW, I'm really nowhere near so up myself in
person as you might think going purely on prose.

Post by Blue Sow
--
Blue Sow- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

G DAEB

COPYRIGHT (C) 2007 SIPSTON
--

[Blue Sow]

Post by Blue Sow
I find the

Post by Blue Sow
discipline of the sonnet a pleasant challenge although I have only written in
the Shakespearean format.

Well, it's certainly the time of year for it.

Is it? I was referring to the form by the way, not the style.

Post by Blue Sow
Are you aware of any traditions of sonnets
in celebration/preparation of the winter
solstice?

That might depend on what 'tradition' means in this case. Certainly such
sonnets exist. Would you be the sort of person who celebrates solstices?

Post by Blue Sow
I hope to attempt something Petrarchan perhaps by the

Post by Blue Sow
turn of the year when I may have some time available.

I shall look out some translations in the mean-
time then. It's been on my mental to-study list
for far longer than I would really like to admit.

Translations? What did you have in mind?
I will be writing them in English, assuming I do find the time.

Post by Blue Sow
I remember a retired artist, by which I mean someone
I knew who was a hobbyist throughout their life and
dedicated more time to it in retirement, rather than
someone who made a living at it, from whom I learnt
how true it is that a painting is never "finished".

In the case of signed paintings, they are usually considered finished when the
signature is added and they are exhibited or sold I think. It is a very long
time since I painted.

Post by Blue Sow
In other words, you can always hone it.

Given the brevity of Haiku, it is sometimes more profitable to begin again, but
certainly I would agree that one can hone a larger work up to the point of
publication, and 'new' revised versions are not unheard of even after that.

Post by Blue Sow
Oh, BTW, I'm really nowhere near so up myself in
person as you might think going purely on prose.

In my experience, people are seldom as they appear to be on the Internet,
although I can confirm one or two exceptions over the years.

[FCS]

Post by Blue Sow

Post by FCS
I shall look out some translations in the mean-
time then. It's been on my mental to-study list
for far longer than I would really like to admit.

Translations? What did you have in mind?
I will be writing them in English, assuming I do find the time.

Whether he (or, as some conjecture, she)
wrote in Latin or contemporary Renaissance
Italian, anything by Petrarch in English
is by definition a translation. And not
all translations are equal.

This wouldn't affect metrical considerations
I grant you but, as I say, I shall look out
some translations.

G DAEB

COPYRIGHT (C) 2007 SIPSTON
--

[Blue Sow]

Post by FCS

Post by Blue Sow

Post by FCS
I shall look out some translations in the mean-
time then. It's been on my mental to-study list
for far longer than I would really like to admit.

Translations? What did you have in mind?
I will be writing them in English, assuming I do find the time.

Whether he (or, as some conjecture, she)
wrote in Latin or contemporary Renaissance
Italian, anything by Petrarch in English
is by definition a translation. And not
all translations are equal.

Petrarca was 'he' and yes, he wrote in Italian.
His rhyme scheme is, for me, more difficult to feel than that used by
Shakespeare (which is based on an English adaptation of the original).
Perhaps it depends on which language one writes them in and writing poetry in
Italian is certainly a challenge worth considering.

Post by FCS
This wouldn't affect metrical considerations
I grant you but, as I say, I shall look out
some translations.

I hope you enjoy them (-:

[FCS]

Post by Blue Sow

Post by FCS
Are you aware of any traditions of sonnets
in celebration/preparation of the winter
solstice?

That might depend on what 'tradition' means in this case. Certainly such
sonnets exist. Would you be the sort of person who celebrates solstices?

Celebrates is perhaps the wrong word.

As a "returning student" in the '90s
I went to a few Solstice parties but
noted a somewhat monotonous routine
emerge:

The drink would've run out, the 'buses
would've stopped for the night, I was
quite a way from home, it was too late
to go anywhere fun, and whatever spliffs
I knocked together tended to disappear
off somewhere and nothing ever came
back to me.

Then between 4 and 6 breathless people
would run in, in a panic, because some
clot I'd never met, having got into an
addictive debt cycle and split up with
their Pandora, would've gone and thrown
themself under a train, off a bridge or
into a reservoir. This tended to bring
anything that still resembled a party-
atmosphere down to several metres below
ground.

As far as the summer goes, there isn't
a person I can think of who's told me
I can't say I've lived until I've set
up a tent and dossed down in the Eavis'
back garden at a total cost of about
£500 whose opinion I consider worth
even considering considering, considering.

It's fairer to say I make a bit of time
to reflect on the persistence of observable
phenomena underpinning contemporary astro-
physics in the face of 1500 or so years'
worth of infallible denial--and this was
long after the Greeks had done the math.

Provided it's not going to affect their
business adversely I don't see why any
employer should have my shortest or my
longest day of any given year.

But I think "Celebrating" is stretching
it a bit. It implies lots of people and
they are the last thing I can bothered
with on any of the days. I did toy with
the idea of being still for a bit either
side of the moments of inertia until I
realised there are no moments of inertia,
per se.

So I just find somewhere with a nice view
for a while, and maybe take advantage of
it being about the last time it's possible
to enjoy a good drinking session in winter
for at least a week or so.

I suppose I kind of concluded the whole
idea of "celebrating" is for people who've
missed the point somewhat.

G DAEB

COPYRIGHT (C) 2007 SIPSTON
--

[Blue Sow]

Post by FCS

Post by Blue Sow

Post by FCS
Are you aware of any traditions of sonnets
in celebration/preparation of the winter
solstice?

That might depend on what 'tradition' means in this case. Certainly such
sonnets exist. Would you be the sort of person who celebrates solstices?

Celebrates is perhaps the wrong word.

Your description of what you used to do would make it the wrong word. Your

Post by FCS
As far as the summer goes, there isn't
a person I can think of who's told me
I can't say I've lived until I've set
up a tent and dossed down in the Eavis'
back garden at a total cost of about
£500 whose opinion I consider worth
even considering considering, considering.

You seem to know a lot of wrong-headed people. That would seem an entirely
unsuitable way of celebrating a summer solstice. It may be a good way of
celebrating music etc., but not a solstice.

On occasion, having calculated midnight local time (not Greenwich, and not
'adjusted'), I celebrate by taking photographs of the northern sky, bearing in
mind it does not become dark at that time of year.

Post by FCS
It's fairer to say I make a bit of time
to reflect on the persistence of observable
phenomena underpinning contemporary astro-
physics in the face of 1500 or so years'
worth of infallible denial--and this was
long after the Greeks had done the math.

Which particular maths are you referring to?

Post by FCS
Provided it's not going to affect their
business adversely I don't see why any
employer should have my shortest or my
longest day of any given year.

I am not sure that observing a natural event requires a day off from work,
although one should be entitled to a number of days off per year with some
flexibility in choosing the dates.

Post by FCS
But I think "Celebrating" is stretching
it a bit.

If you think so.

Post by FCS
It implies lots of people and
they are the last thing I can bothered
with on any of the days.

Does it? It only takes one person to celebrate an event. Two is a good number.
Large numbers tend to be objectionable.

Post by FCS
So I just find somewhere with a nice view
for a while, and maybe take advantage of
it being about the last time it's possible
to enjoy a good drinking session in winter
for at least a week or so.

That sounded like a very good way of celebrating until I got to the 'drinking
session' at the end, which seems like one way of missing your own party, for
want of a better phrase.

Post by FCS
I suppose I kind of concluded the whole
idea of "celebrating" is for people who've
missed the point somewhat.

In the way you define it, I would agree. But in the proper, non-drunken-orgy
meaning of the term, celebrating is what many of the people who are not at those
'parties' are probably doing.

[FCS]

Post by Blue Sow

Post by FCS

Post by Blue Sow

Post by FCS
Are you aware of any traditions of sonnets
in celebration/preparation of the winter
solstice?

That might depend on what 'tradition' means in this case. Certainly such
sonnets exist. Would you be the sort of person who celebrates solstices?

Celebrates is perhaps the wrong word.

Your description of what you used to do would make it the wrong word. Your

Yeah, I get more Saturnalian for New Year.

But that often adds up being the fresh-faced
bright-eyed NYE partier in environments
people haven't sobered up for a week and
are showing signs of early-stage psychosis
from having been fit to drive, for e.g..

Post by Blue Sow

Post by FCS
As far as the summer goes, there isn't
a person I can think of who's told me
I can't say I've lived until I've set
up a tent and dossed down in the Eavis'
back garden at a total cost of about
£500 whose opinion I consider worth
even considering considering, considering.

You seem to know a lot of wrong-headed people.

Lots of them know of me is more to the point.

I've heard it too many times.

That would seem an entirely

Post by Blue Sow
unsuitable way of celebrating a summer solstice. It may be a good way of
celebrating music etc., but not a solstice.
On occasion, having calculated midnight local time (not Greenwich, and not
'adjusted'), I celebrate by taking photographs of the northern sky, bearing in
mind it does not become dark at that time of year.

Post by FCS
It's fairer to say I make a bit of time
to reflect on the persistence of observable
phenomena underpinning contemporary astro-
physics in the face of 1500 or so years'
worth of infallible denial--and this was
long after the Greeks had done the math.

Which particular maths are you referring to?

Circumference of the planet. either c. 130BCE or
c. 300 BCE IIRC.

Post by Blue Sow

Post by FCS
Provided it's not going to affect their
business adversely I don't see why any
employer should have my shortest or my
longest day of any given year.

I am not sure that observing a natural event requires a day off from work,
although one should be entitled to a number of days off per year with some
flexibility in choosing the dates.

Post by FCS
But I think "Celebrating" is stretching
it a bit.

If you think so.

Post by FCS
It implies lots of people and
they are the last thing I can bothered
with on any of the days.

Does it? It only takes one person to celebrate an event. Two is a good number.
Large numbers tend to be objectionable.

I'm quite at home with large numbers of people.
Nothing wrong with them. I'm just not one of
the crowd and want to be actively doing something
at places they get together. Otherwise I shall be
off somewhere I can breathe.

Queues are to be busted, not stood in.

That's not quite the same thing as being the
Priest of the Parish. And even then I thought
the celebrants were the herd, not the collie.

Post by Blue Sow

Post by FCS
So I just find somewhere with a nice view
for a while, and maybe take advantage of
it being about the last time it's possible
to enjoy a good drinking session in winter
for at least a week or so.

That sounded like a very good way of celebrating until I got to the 'drinking
session' at the end, which seems like one way of missing your own party, for
want of a better phrase.

Post by FCS
I suppose I kind of concluded the whole
idea of "celebrating" is for people who've
missed the point somewhat.

In the way you define it, I would agree. But in the proper, non-drunken-orgy

Orgy? What? You think I'm barely adult?
It'd be nice.

Then again despite I hardly look like a
fresh-out-the-presbytery with a haircut
from a basin in my thirties I'm still
young enough to give life a good facing.

A bodge that works out-micturates a shit
design any day.

Post by Blue Sow
meaning of the term, celebrating is what many of the people who are not at those
'parties' are probably doing.
--
Blue Sow

G DAEB

COPYRIGHT (C) 2007 SIPSTON
--

[Blue Sow]

Post by FCS
Orgy? What? You think I'm barely adult?

Well no. Orgies are an activity intended for the adult.
The barely adult ought not to indulge lest they break the law or ruin their
appetites (or both).