Discussion:
the detective novel/detective fiction
(too old to reply)
FCS
2008-07-16 15:08:59 UTC
Permalink
I note in today's THE TIMES that Ben
Hoyle (Arts Reporter) believes "...the cult
of the detective peaked with the creation
of Sherlock Holmes".

I can't see this go unchallenged, much as
it is quite cleverly couched. Has the guy
never read any Isaac Asimov? Or any of
the countless other works of detective fiction
which still sell more than Conan Doyle?

Forensics is still in its adolescence. And
Holmes was not much of a forensics man,
albeit Conan Doyle was a fan of such moves
as to extend the fairground lure of cold-
reading into craniology and beyond; his
work always built on the concept of the
rote-memorised taxonomic catalogue, beit
the study of clays found in the Downs and
London, cigar ashes from round the world,
or the unique aural gravures of Francophone
penitentiaries (eroticised, for some reason,
perhaps to appeal to the more ladylike of
his suffragan fans).

And nor can the "cult" of the detective have
peaked a century ago: purely in numeric terms
there are far more narratives in far more media
now than ever before. And folk still visit Lodnon's
Baker Street daily to see the door of 221B.

G DAEB
COPYRIGHT (C) 2008 SIPSTON
--
Not one of these modern mathematicians
who doesn't know a 2 from a 4.
Blue Sow
2008-07-16 15:33:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by FCS
I note in today's THE TIMES that Ben
Hoyle (Arts Reporter) believes "...the cult
of the detective peaked with the creation
of Sherlock Holmes".
I can't see this go unchallenged, much as
it is quite cleverly couched. Has the guy
never read any Isaac Asimov? Or any of
the countless other works of detective fiction
which still sell more than Conan Doyle?
*SNIP
Post by FCS
And nor can the "cult" of the detective have
peaked a century ago: purely in numeric terms
there are far more narratives in far more media
now than ever before. And folk still visit Lodnon's
Baker Street daily to see the door of 221B.
Thus proving Mr Hoyle's point that the detective cult peaked with the creation
of Sherlock Holmes, which I doubt you intended to do.
Admittedly, many people visit Oxford to see the haunts of Inspector Morse but,
as you say, people still go to see 221b even after all this time.

You seem to be thinking of sales of detective fiction peaking in which case,
have you allowed for population growth, improved access, etc.?

Isaac Asimov? You do have a sense of humour.
--
Blue Sow
JF
2008-07-20 10:31:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Blue Sow
You seem to be thinking of sales of detective fiction peaking in which
case, have you allowed for population growth, improved access, etc.?
Isaac Asimov? You do have a sense of humour.
The black widowers series were excellent detective stories. The reader
was presented with all the essential clues right off -- no cheating.
They were great detective yarns.
--
James Follett. Novelist. (G1LXP) http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk
http://www.pbase.com/jamesfollett
FCS
2008-07-21 00:11:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Blue Sow
Post by FCS
I note in today's THE TIMES that Ben
Hoyle (Arts Reporter) believes "...the cult
of the detective peaked with the creation
of Sherlock Holmes".
I can't see this go unchallenged, much as
it is quite cleverly couched. Has the guy
never read any Isaac Asimov? Or any of
the countless other works of detective fiction
which still sell more than Conan Doyle?
*SNIP
Post by FCS
And nor can the "cult" of the detective have
peaked a century ago: purely in numeric terms
there are far more narratives in far more media
now than ever before. And folk still visit Lodnon's
Baker Street daily to see the door of 221B.
Thus proving Mr Hoyle's point that the detective cult peaked with the creation
of Sherlock Holmes, which I doubt you intended to do.
Admittedly, many people visit Oxford to see the haunts of Inspector Morse but,
as you say, people still go to see 221b even after all this time.
So perhaps you might like to expand on the
part played by Mr Brownlow in Oliver Twist
if it wasn't to weave together the clues which
were never provided?

I notice you draw no distinction between the
past tense implicit in "peaked" and the ongoing
interest.

I note also that you entirely overlook the works
of Agatha Christie.

I note also that you follow your usual MO of
adding nothing worthwhile to the discussion.
Post by Blue Sow
You seem to be thinking of sales of detective fiction peaking in which case,
have you allowed for population growth, improved access, etc.?
Isaac Asimov?  You do have a sense of humour.
Whereas you merely appear not to have a thermometer.
Post by Blue Sow
--
Blue Sow
G DAEB
COPYRIGHT (C) 2008 SIPSTON
--
Blue Sow
2008-07-21 11:07:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by FCS
So perhaps you might like to expand on the
part played by Mr Brownlow in Oliver Twist
if it wasn't to weave together the clues which
were never provided?
I might not.
Post by FCS
I notice you draw no distinction between the
past tense implicit in "peaked" and the ongoing
interest.
I think it was you who mentioned about people still going to Baker Street.
Post by FCS
I note also that you entirely overlook the works
of Agatha Christie.
Not at all. It was my first thought and wondered why you didn't mention her.
Post by FCS
I note also that you follow your usual MO of
adding nothing worthwhile to the discussion.
There wasn't a discussion to which to add, just your assertion that the writer
was incorrect.
Post by FCS
Post by Blue Sow
Isaac Asimov? You do have a sense of humour.
Whereas you merely appear not to have a thermometer.
Getting hot under the collar ?
--
Blue Sow
FCS
2008-07-21 00:43:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Blue Sow
Post by FCS
I note in today's THE TIMES that Ben
Hoyle (Arts Reporter) believes "...the cult
of the detective peaked with the creation
of Sherlock Holmes".
I can't see this go unchallenged, much as
it is quite cleverly couched. Has the guy
never read any Isaac Asimov? Or any of
the countless other works of detective fiction
which still sell more than Conan Doyle?
*SNIP
Post by FCS
And nor can the "cult" of the detective have
peaked a century ago: purely in numeric terms
there are far more narratives in far more media
now than ever before. And folk still visit Lodnon's
Baker Street daily to see the door of 221B.
Thus proving Mr Hoyle's point that the detective cult peaked with the creation
of Sherlock Holmes, which I doubt you intended to do.
John Napier was an apocryphologist.

Define "cult". Define "peaked".
Post by Blue Sow
Admittedly, many people visit Oxford to see the haunts of Inspector Morse but,
as you say, people still go to see 221b even after all this time.
St Mary Mead is a fictional place. Baker Street is not.

Sentient robots do not yet exist. And so forth.
Post by Blue Sow
You seem to be thinking of sales of detective fiction peaking in which case,
have you allowed for population growth, improved access, etc.?
There is little point--they are irrelevant metastatistically.

I take it you do not consider W Peter Blatty's "The
Exorcist" to be detective fiction. Or Poe's "The Gold
Bug". Or are they fluenza non grata as this is in the
news:uk.culture.* hierarchy?
Post by Blue Sow
Isaac Asimov?  You do have a sense of humour.
--
Blue Sow
Blue Sow
2008-07-21 11:24:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by FCS
John Napier was an apocryphologist.
Define "cult". Define "peaked".
Me? But it your thread ... you are making the assertions. If you do not know
the definitions of the words used in the original article, perhaps you should
not have passed comment upon it.
Post by FCS
St Mary Mead is a fictional place. Baker Street is not.
221B was a fictional place at the time it was inhabited by Mr. Holmes. A space
for it has been invented since to amuse the tourists.
Fiction, even detective fiction, often makes use of fictional characters,
fictional places, and fictional story lines. This may even be linked to it
being defined as fiction.
This seems to have little effect upon the cult of the detective. I don't think
the original writer mentioned a cult of the detective's home.
Post by FCS
Sentient robots do not yet exist. And so forth.
That would matter to someone, I am sure.
Post by FCS
Post by Blue Sow
You seem to be thinking of sales of detective fiction peaking in which case,
have you allowed for population growth, improved access, etc.?
There is little point--they are irrelevant metastatistically.
LOL
Post by FCS
I take it you do not consider W Peter Blatty's "The
Exorcist" to be detective fiction.
Indeed I do not. Nor is it relevant to the issue of whether the cult of the
detective peaked with Sherlock Homes. That a character is trying to discover
something does not make them a detective (which was the point) not is the story
automatically detective fiction (which is beside the point).

But I expect you think that you have 'added to the discussion' so be happy,
drink up, and pass out.
--
Blue Sow
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